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	<title>Comments on: The Notion of Trust in PLM</title>
	<atom:link href="http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/</link>
	<description>Product Lifecycle Management by Oleg Shilovitsky</description>
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		<title>By: LinZi</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-3519</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LinZi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 11:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-3519</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Keep up the nice work! Look forward to reading more from you in the future. I think it will be also nice if you add &quot;send to email&quot; tool so people can forward the articles to their friends easily.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep up the nice work! Look forward to reading more from you in the future. I think it will be also nice if you add &#8220;send to email&#8221; tool so people can forward the articles to their friends easily.</p>
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		<title>By: olegshilovitsky</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-2829</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[olegshilovitsky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-2829</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Martijn, I understand what you are saying about homegrown solutions and situation when you have localized and customized solution. In this case you need to have more trust to your service provider or local IT team, of course. And these teams are always will be more dedicated compared to big vendors, since they are working on local stuff for limited number of customers. In my view, this is a way for big vendors to compensate on lack of dedication for mid-size customers. Best, Oleg.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Martijn, I understand what you are saying about homegrown solutions and situation when you have localized and customized solution. In this case you need to have more trust to your service provider or local IT team, of course. And these teams are always will be more dedicated compared to big vendors, since they are working on local stuff for limited number of customers. In my view, this is a way for big vendors to compensate on lack of dedication for mid-size customers. Best, Oleg.</p>
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		<title>By: Martijn Dullaart</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-2828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martijn Dullaart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-2828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Oleg, It is not so much that we have SAP PLM already. We do have SAP but not so much for PLM or very limited. We already have multiple solutions from various large PLM vendors in place. But the policy is SAP unless and therefore any replacement activities must first go through the &#039;can-SAP-do-PLM cycle&#039;. Which I personally think is fine.

With respect to not necessarily trusting a larger vendor is mainly because of my personal experience. I have worked with (as consultant) systems from various large vendors and also with home grown systems. And the fact is that so far the teams that support the home grown system are much more dedicated than a large vendor. Which is not so strange, because the home team has only one customer.

Transitioning from a home grown solution (in this case a large system that supports both the engineering, manufacturing and service community) to a standard solution from a large vendor is not going to be easy. The actual users will get less while they still have to do the same work (in our case). So their trust is by default at an all time low. For the management the trust is increased because they feel comfortable with the large vendor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Oleg, It is not so much that we have SAP PLM already. We do have SAP but not so much for PLM or very limited. We already have multiple solutions from various large PLM vendors in place. But the policy is SAP unless and therefore any replacement activities must first go through the &#8216;can-SAP-do-PLM cycle&#8217;. Which I personally think is fine.</p>
<p>With respect to not necessarily trusting a larger vendor is mainly because of my personal experience. I have worked with (as consultant) systems from various large vendors and also with home grown systems. And the fact is that so far the teams that support the home grown system are much more dedicated than a large vendor. Which is not so strange, because the home team has only one customer.</p>
<p>Transitioning from a home grown solution (in this case a large system that supports both the engineering, manufacturing and service community) to a standard solution from a large vendor is not going to be easy. The actual users will get less while they still have to do the same work (in our case). So their trust is by default at an all time low. For the management the trust is increased because they feel comfortable with the large vendor.</p>
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		<title>By: olegshilovitsky</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-2827</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[olegshilovitsky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-2827</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Loic, Thanks for your experience sharing! For me, this is a very interesting question – to compare how smaller companies can gain trust against bigger customers. And I do believe it also different for different industries. Could you imagine startup companies today manufacturing cars (actually, I could? But they are manufacturing segmental cars, which is also similar to your examples by going in small steps). Another thing, I haven’t heard yet, but it seems to be interesting -how a company can gain trust via social networks (think about qualified sellers on Amazon for example)?
Best, Oleg]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Loic, Thanks for your experience sharing! For me, this is a very interesting question – to compare how smaller companies can gain trust against bigger customers. And I do believe it also different for different industries. Could you imagine startup companies today manufacturing cars (actually, I could? But they are manufacturing segmental cars, which is also similar to your examples by going in small steps). Another thing, I haven’t heard yet, but it seems to be interesting -how a company can gain trust via social networks (think about qualified sellers on Amazon for example)?<br />
Best, Oleg</p>
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		<title>By: Loic Mouchard</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-2826</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Loic Mouchard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-2826</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Oleg, 

I think the customer&#039;s truth in Big compagnies is link to the history of the vendors: 
&quot;- they have lot of clients, so that limit the risk of having a new problem&quot;, 
&quot;- the solution meke its proofs in other compagnies, so risks should not be too high in trusting the solution&quot;...

Furthemore, I am not sure wheather clients trut PLM vendors or their solution... who wants a 1.0 vension? Why V6 Dassault System plateform began to R2009? And I didn&#039;t heard about huge changes in behaviours after Siemens took UGS...

Actually, I would say that both the product and the compagny selling it must gain the customer(management and users) trust.

Reaction time to correct bug or develop new features is reaaly huge, some month at least. This is not necessary the case in smaller structures, that keep their products at a human &quot;manageble&quot; level.

As an example, I am in a compagny rather small compared to main PLM&#039;s vendors and I could experience the changing behaviour on of new (rather big) customer:
1- at the begining, the product has to show it was able to cover the whole wanted features. Everything goes quite normally until a little lack occurs... 
2- the customer was then in an &quot;anxious mode&quot;, thinking delay and failure risk was very huge. In this phase, talking can not do so much: one will see the results. 
3-  after a quick resolution of the problem (2-3 weeks) we could demonstrate the whole functionallity. 

The project team was really impress, and I hope I can say now that the customer trust us and our product capabilities... 

Best, 
Loic]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Oleg, </p>
<p>I think the customer&#8217;s truth in Big compagnies is link to the history of the vendors:<br />
&#8220;- they have lot of clients, so that limit the risk of having a new problem&#8221;,<br />
&#8220;- the solution meke its proofs in other compagnies, so risks should not be too high in trusting the solution&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>Furthemore, I am not sure wheather clients trut PLM vendors or their solution&#8230; who wants a 1.0 vension? Why V6 Dassault System plateform began to R2009? And I didn&#8217;t heard about huge changes in behaviours after Siemens took UGS&#8230;</p>
<p>Actually, I would say that both the product and the compagny selling it must gain the customer(management and users) trust.</p>
<p>Reaction time to correct bug or develop new features is reaaly huge, some month at least. This is not necessary the case in smaller structures, that keep their products at a human &#8220;manageble&#8221; level.</p>
<p>As an example, I am in a compagny rather small compared to main PLM&#8217;s vendors and I could experience the changing behaviour on of new (rather big) customer:<br />
1- at the begining, the product has to show it was able to cover the whole wanted features. Everything goes quite normally until a little lack occurs&#8230;<br />
2- the customer was then in an &#8220;anxious mode&#8221;, thinking delay and failure risk was very huge. In this phase, talking can not do so much: one will see the results.<br />
3-  after a quick resolution of the problem (2-3 weeks) we could demonstrate the whole functionallity. </p>
<p>The project team was really impress, and I hope I can say now that the customer trust us and our product capabilities&#8230; </p>
<p>Best,<br />
Loic</p>
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		<title>By: olegshilovitsky</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-2823</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[olegshilovitsky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 13:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-2823</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bill, I think, this is a valid point. But, on the other side, if those companies (vendors) are fully dependent on their client, they need to be taking care of them even more carefully. For these vendors recurrent revenue stream becomes even more important...  Don&#039;t you think so? Thanks for your comments! Best, Oleg]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I think, this is a valid point. But, on the other side, if those companies (vendors) are fully dependent on their client, they need to be taking care of them even more carefully. For these vendors recurrent revenue stream becomes even more important&#8230;  Don&#8217;t you think so? Thanks for your comments! Best, Oleg</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Steiniger</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-2821</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Steiniger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-2821</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I beleive trust is important in any type of relationship, I think in the context of PLM it may be a misnomer. Companies investing in PLM feel very secure with large companies. The issue faced is that these companies are usually involved with many large customers and the importance of the new customer tends to get lost in the shuffle. These large vendor PLM Systems normally become very complex to use, based on servicing their large user bases, and become unproductive tools within organizations. Companies seem to keep adding features/functions which customers ask for, which further complicates the process of using the system. As this continues to happen, the usage of the system falls off due to user dissatisfaction, and they relegate the system to performing as document management systems (ala Matrix as I have seen many times).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I beleive trust is important in any type of relationship, I think in the context of PLM it may be a misnomer. Companies investing in PLM feel very secure with large companies. The issue faced is that these companies are usually involved with many large customers and the importance of the new customer tends to get lost in the shuffle. These large vendor PLM Systems normally become very complex to use, based on servicing their large user bases, and become unproductive tools within organizations. Companies seem to keep adding features/functions which customers ask for, which further complicates the process of using the system. As this continues to happen, the usage of the system falls off due to user dissatisfaction, and they relegate the system to performing as document management systems (ala Matrix as I have seen many times).</p>
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		<title>By: olegshilovitsky</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-2810</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[olegshilovitsky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-2810</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JT, Thanks for your insight! Trust is sensitive. You need to work hard to gain it and you can lost is very easy. I think we will see soon very new dimension of trust related to online/saas companies. This is will be interesting comparison - between companies releasing software physical assets (i.e. Microsoft) and companies providing online services (i.e. Google). Best, Oleg]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JT, Thanks for your insight! Trust is sensitive. You need to work hard to gain it and you can lost is very easy. I think we will see soon very new dimension of trust related to online/saas companies. This is will be interesting comparison &#8211; between companies releasing software physical assets (i.e. Microsoft) and companies providing online services (i.e. Google). Best, Oleg</p>
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		<title>By: JT Pedersen</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-2808</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JT Pedersen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-2808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Oleg,

Interesting discussion.  Changing PLM vendors is a kind of &#039;deep change&#039; that I wrote about myself in July.  excertping...&quot;Trust is both and emotional and logical act. Emotionally, it is where you expose your vulnerabilities to people, but believing they will not take advantage of your openness. Logically, it is where you have assessed the probabilities of gain and loss, calculating expected utility based on hard performance data, and concluded that the person in question will behave in a predictable manner. In practice, trust is a bit of both. I trust you because I have experienced your trustworthiness and because I have faith in human nature.&quot;

Traditionally, we did tend to trust (what we knew of) larger companies.  They had demonstrated staying power, capability, and a history of behavior.  You had a palpable feel for &#039;who&#039; they were.

Today, that is less true.  Where yesterday&#039;s &#039;major&#039; vendors are being gobbled up (e.g. UGS) by ever larger conglomerates, just &#039;who&#039; you are dealing with becomes less clear.  And, it seems to be happening more frequently as we move forward.  We have all seen what can happen to a product line after a new parent has acquired it.

When it comes to trust, the best you can do is make a decision based on the hear and now.  The vendors&#039; execs you met with last week, giving you a warm and fuzzy, likely won&#039;t be around in 24 months.  If they are, its an equal likelihood they&#039;re in a new role unable to effectively influence prior commitments they may have made to you.

Google vs. Microsoft?  How do you &#039;trust&#039; either organization?  When your own company, even if you&#039;re a Fortune 100, expenditures are but a drop in their annual revenue bucket, how committed do you think -they- are to you?

Cheers,

JT...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Oleg,</p>
<p>Interesting discussion.  Changing PLM vendors is a kind of &#8216;deep change&#8217; that I wrote about myself in July.  excertping&#8230;&#8221;Trust is both and emotional and logical act. Emotionally, it is where you expose your vulnerabilities to people, but believing they will not take advantage of your openness. Logically, it is where you have assessed the probabilities of gain and loss, calculating expected utility based on hard performance data, and concluded that the person in question will behave in a predictable manner. In practice, trust is a bit of both. I trust you because I have experienced your trustworthiness and because I have faith in human nature.&#8221;</p>
<p>Traditionally, we did tend to trust (what we knew of) larger companies.  They had demonstrated staying power, capability, and a history of behavior.  You had a palpable feel for &#8216;who&#8217; they were.</p>
<p>Today, that is less true.  Where yesterday&#8217;s &#8216;major&#8217; vendors are being gobbled up (e.g. UGS) by ever larger conglomerates, just &#8216;who&#8217; you are dealing with becomes less clear.  And, it seems to be happening more frequently as we move forward.  We have all seen what can happen to a product line after a new parent has acquired it.</p>
<p>When it comes to trust, the best you can do is make a decision based on the hear and now.  The vendors&#8217; execs you met with last week, giving you a warm and fuzzy, likely won&#8217;t be around in 24 months.  If they are, its an equal likelihood they&#8217;re in a new role unable to effectively influence prior commitments they may have made to you.</p>
<p>Google vs. Microsoft?  How do you &#8216;trust&#8217; either organization?  When your own company, even if you&#8217;re a Fortune 100, expenditures are but a drop in their annual revenue bucket, how committed do you think -they- are to you?</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>JT&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: olegshilovitsky</title>
		<link>http://plmtwine.com/2009/10/30/the-notion-of-trust-in-plm/#comment-2807</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[olegshilovitsky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://plmtwine.com/?p=3495#comment-2807</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Martijn, Thanks! What is interesting is your contradiction between &quot;not necessarily trust a larger vendor&quot; and probably option first to check how SAP &quot;can do PLM&quot;. However, this is probably way trust is reflected. If you already have SAP inside, you will try to use SAP as trust-able vendor. Regards, Oleg]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martijn, Thanks! What is interesting is your contradiction between &#8220;not necessarily trust a larger vendor&#8221; and probably option first to check how SAP &#8220;can do PLM&#8221;. However, this is probably way trust is reflected. If you already have SAP inside, you will try to use SAP as trust-able vendor. Regards, Oleg</p>
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